If you accept that doing Heisig before trying to learn Japanese in general is a good idea, then of course it makes sense to learn the common kanji first, and then go crazy with the reading and jukugo learning later. There are only a few common non-jouyou kanji, perhaps 150.

Of course this isn’t some set number, it’s an estimate. I disagree that there is no way to make this esimate or that it’s not worthwhile to try. It’s pretty obvious for someone who has already attained a high level of Japanese which are common and which aren’t, that’s why the noobs are asking those people. 誰 is the one that I always think is a crime not to include. Anyway, {insert feel good ‘just do it, don’t think’ type sentiment here.}

Part of the reason that I enjoy listening to or watching the same movie over and over is that, after I’ve seen it several times, I begin to understand *how* the movie was made.

How they advance the story, develop the characters, foreshadow, staging, editing, pacing etc, etc. I enjoy doing that for movies in English - and doing it with Miyazaki films from which many American animators have drawn inspiration is just fun.

And that’s ultimately what it’s about: fun. Communicating with other human beings isn’t work, it’s a natural part of *being* human. If learning to communicate is boring study, then the learning process can be vastly improved.

In the case of Kanji, I think it’s a case of misinformation *and* misdirection. A lot of resources out there are teaching people that chasing after a number is the way to fluency.

It’s taking all the excitement of someone new to learning Japanese and snuffing it out with memorization goals.

But if that excitement is directed towards consuming Japanese TV, short stories, Movies and books - whatever it takes to carry that excitement forward - the memorization is much simpler. How could it not be with that much context to draw upon?

And to stay on the topic of your post, I think that people are just disappointed because they were told that 2000 kanji was what they needed and they find out that isn’t really the case. There seem to be a lot of misinformation on that subject. But once we have learned how to learn the kanji, learning more isn’t a problem.

Part of it is our desire for quantifiable progress. We love to measure what we do. Counting Kanji and Vocab is easy, but how do you quantify reading comprehension and real understanding? And when we read or listen and understand virtually nothing, we assume that we wasted our time! If that’s the case, then any child learning any first language is doomed.

As for listening, I’ve been doing a lot of experimentation with different sources. In general, I’ve found any recordings for “learning Japanese” to be painful. So I’ve only been listening to material produced for Japanese people.

News, humor and talk podcasts - both audio and video. Dramas like モップガッル and Cutie Honey(I know, I should be ashamed). JTV like Downtown DX and Pussuma(This show is hilarious). And Anime TV and Movies I’ve collected like もののけ姫, Akira, Paprika, Laputa, Steamboy, Cowboy Bebop etc.

Occasionally, I’ll save a sentence that I recognize or look up one of the many, many sentences I have no clue on. But for the most part I just listen - there is no substitute for the feeling when a word, phrase or sentence just jumps out at you and you understand

For most of these programs I’ve started ripping the audio out separately and just listening to them. This way, whatever I’m doing, I can just listen to the movie in the background. Interestingly, when I wasn’t learning Japanese, I used to put movies on repeat in my dvd player and let them go for days. It was good background noise for work - and death for that dvd player.

I try to avoid subtitles, they can help you figure out what word is what but eventually I just fall into reading the English. I’m hardwired - if I see anything in English I read it whether I want to or not. I did watch a Japanese drama that had Japanese subtitles once - it was cool but I still found myself reading when I really wanted to be listening.

Finaly, what I’m wondering about with listening right now is the difference between listening to the same program repeatedly versus listening to something new. Because eventually, I memorize parts of the program. I know what’s coming so it’s not so much listening comprehension as memory recall.

But when I listen to something I’ve never heard before and that same phrase that I memorized jumps out at me when I’m not expecting it and I instantly understand, that’s fun.

So the podcasts, I listen to them once and move on. Movies and TV, If I still enjoy the program, I’ll play it again and again.

I think the main reason such questions get asked (and answered) repeatedly is because people expect that finishing off RTK will magically enable them to breeze over words (which consist of kanji) and sentences in books, magazines, websites, etc. without actually not having read even a single line of Japanese (isn’t that the same reason why people take classes?). You were absolutely right when you said that people would do anything in their power NOT to read Japanese. Strange isn’t it?

And yes, I still don’t get the point of Joyo kanji (other than behaving as radicals for component kanji). I still haven’t come across more than a quarter of the kanji that I learnt through RTK (which may be due to insufficient reading though)

I’ve been meaning to ask you for a while now - what do you do about your listening comprehension? As in, do you just run the DVD and let it loop endlessly? Or do you pause, pick out words and look them up in a dictionary? And do you use subs (occasionally if not always)?