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	<title>Comments on: Learning From Drudgery</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/2008/08/22/learning-from-drudgery/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/2008/08/22/learning-from-drudgery/</link>
	<description>Learning to Read Japanese by...Reading Japanese</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 08:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Khalid</title>
		<link>http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/2008/08/22/learning-from-drudgery/#comment-94</link>
		<dc:creator>Khalid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 14:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/?p=41#comment-94</guid>
		<description>Ikeda_Kat, I sent you an email directly and manually activated one of the accounts - the one using the email address you put on this comment.

In case the email doesn't arrive or the login fails, you can email me directly:

khalid [at] feedmejapanese.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ikeda_Kat, I sent you an email directly and manually activated one of the accounts - the one using the email address you put on this comment.</p>
<p>In case the email doesn&#8217;t arrive or the login fails, you can email me directly:</p>
<p>khalid [at] feedmejapanese.com</p>
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		<title>By: Ikeda_Kat</title>
		<link>http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/2008/08/22/learning-from-drudgery/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator>Ikeda_Kat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 13:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/?p=41#comment-93</guid>
		<description>I have not received a confirmation email for the Beta, even though I registered twice. I couldn't figure out who to contact so I'm writing this here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not received a confirmation email for the Beta, even though I registered twice. I couldn&#8217;t figure out who to contact so I&#8217;m writing this here.</p>
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		<title>By: Khalid</title>
		<link>http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/2008/08/22/learning-from-drudgery/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>Khalid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 20:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/?p=41#comment-91</guid>
		<description>I don't think there are necessarily "right" or "wrong" ways of learning because of the versatility of the human mind.

But you do raise an interesting point which I don't think has been adequately addressed here or on any other blog I've read: What is fun?

I don't imply, or at least I think I don't, that fun equates to joyful, blissful, easy effort.  Some of the most enjoyable things are very difficult.

I've seen several heated discussions come up over what people mean when they say 'fun'.  I'll try to clarify my thoughts in another post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think there are necessarily &#8220;right&#8221; or &#8220;wrong&#8221; ways of learning because of the versatility of the human mind.</p>
<p>But you do raise an interesting point which I don&#8217;t think has been adequately addressed here or on any other blog I&#8217;ve read: What is fun?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t imply, or at least I think I don&#8217;t, that fun equates to joyful, blissful, easy effort.  Some of the most enjoyable things are very difficult.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen several heated discussions come up over what people mean when they say &#8216;fun&#8217;.  I&#8217;ll try to clarify my thoughts in another post.</p>
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		<title>By: CharleyGarrett</title>
		<link>http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/2008/08/22/learning-from-drudgery/#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator>CharleyGarrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/?p=41#comment-90</guid>
		<description>I still have a bit of a problem with the "if it ain't easy, you're doing it wrong".  Somethings, playing the piano, speaking another language, singing, can be quite challenging to do correctly.  There are good ways of learning, and then there are the wrong ways of learning.  We don't want to "fail" by using the wrong way, so we seek out the wisdom of successful learners.  By gum, there is going to be some effort required!  And time!  Not all of that effort and time can be joyful, blissful and easy.

There are some people who can just do things well, their first time.  God built that into them.  So, they're not very helpful when asked "How can I learn to sing as well as you?"  Their answer is "you just open your mouth and music comes out".

I'm just not convinced that "trying" is evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still have a bit of a problem with the &#8220;if it ain&#8217;t easy, you&#8217;re doing it wrong&#8221;.  Somethings, playing the piano, speaking another language, singing, can be quite challenging to do correctly.  There are good ways of learning, and then there are the wrong ways of learning.  We don&#8217;t want to &#8220;fail&#8221; by using the wrong way, so we seek out the wisdom of successful learners.  By gum, there is going to be some effort required!  And time!  Not all of that effort and time can be joyful, blissful and easy.</p>
<p>There are some people who can just do things well, their first time.  God built that into them.  So, they&#8217;re not very helpful when asked &#8220;How can I learn to sing as well as you?&#8221;  Their answer is &#8220;you just open your mouth and music comes out&#8221;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just not convinced that &#8220;trying&#8221; is evil.</p>
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		<title>By: アカン</title>
		<link>http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/2008/08/22/learning-from-drudgery/#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>アカン</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 07:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/?p=41#comment-87</guid>
		<description>A huge scuffle appears to be going on at AJATT over this very issue:

http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/secrets-to-smoother-srsing-part-1-the-srs-is-a-servant-not-a-master</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A huge scuffle appears to be going on at AJATT over this very issue:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/secrets-to-smoother-srsing-part-1-the-srs-is-a-servant-not-a-master" rel="nofollow">http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/secrets-to-smoother-srsing-part-1-the-srs-is-a-servant-not-a-master</a></p>
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		<title>By: Khalid</title>
		<link>http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/2008/08/22/learning-from-drudgery/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>Khalid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 00:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/?p=41#comment-86</guid>
		<description>Thanks for stopping by suffah!

It's certainly not my intent to blast anyone's post so I apologize for any offense :( - I try to use quotes to construct straw men that I use for discussion. People are off limits but ideas are fair game :)

My mission here is to discuss and dig to the core of learning a language.  To find the most important element for "sticking with it".

Thus far it seems to be a combination of interest and variety. And when you consider how often words and phrases like drudgery, boredom, depression, mind-numbing, soul-crushing and headache-inducing are used to describe parts of the language learning experience, this combination is not as obvious as it would seem.

And laziness is good! All great inventions come from people too lazy to do it the old way ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for stopping by suffah!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s certainly not my intent to blast anyone&#8217;s post so I apologize for any offense <img src='http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> - I try to use quotes to construct straw men that I use for discussion. People are off limits but ideas are fair game <img src='http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>My mission here is to discuss and dig to the core of learning a language.  To find the most important element for &#8220;sticking with it&#8221;.</p>
<p>Thus far it seems to be a combination of interest and variety. And when you consider how often words and phrases like drudgery, boredom, depression, mind-numbing, soul-crushing and headache-inducing are used to describe parts of the language learning experience, this combination is not as obvious as it would seem.</p>
<p>And laziness is good! All great inventions come from people too lazy to do it the old way <img src='http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: suffah</title>
		<link>http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/2008/08/22/learning-from-drudgery/#comment-85</link>
		<dc:creator>suffah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/?p=41#comment-85</guid>
		<description>There are some extremely insightful posts here.  I just discovered the blog and am enjoying going through the archives (even though you blasted a couple of my posts from the RTK forums.) ;)

In regards to this post, I'm grateful that I am naturally lazy.  I'm not much of a sentence miner and definitely don't look up words in a dictionary while I read.  The reason?  It's too much of a chore, even though I usually have an electronic dictionary, laptop, or real dictionary within arm's reach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some extremely insightful posts here.  I just discovered the blog and am enjoying going through the archives (even though you blasted a couple of my posts from the RTK forums.) <img src='http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>In regards to this post, I&#8217;m grateful that I am naturally lazy.  I&#8217;m not much of a sentence miner and definitely don&#8217;t look up words in a dictionary while I read.  The reason?  It&#8217;s too much of a chore, even though I usually have an electronic dictionary, laptop, or real dictionary within arm&#8217;s reach.</p>
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		<title>By: Khalid</title>
		<link>http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/2008/08/22/learning-from-drudgery/#comment-81</link>
		<dc:creator>Khalid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/?p=41#comment-81</guid>
		<description>Thanks Xavier! I think you've beautifully summed up language learning - just relax and enjoy the journey. Even native speakers still have a lot to learn.

They just don't call it studying, they call it "practicing public speaking", blogging, creative writing or reading the classics ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Xavier! I think you&#8217;ve beautifully summed up language learning - just relax and enjoy the journey. Even native speakers still have a lot to learn.</p>
<p>They just don&#8217;t call it studying, they call it &#8220;practicing public speaking&#8221;, blogging, creative writing or reading the classics <img src='http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Xavier</title>
		<link>http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/2008/08/22/learning-from-drudgery/#comment-80</link>
		<dc:creator>Xavier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.feedmejapanese.com/?p=41#comment-80</guid>
		<description>Great blog! I agree with your approach. I study Japanese because I want to read Kawabata and Mishima in the original. That motivation keeps me going.

My mantra for learning is, in the beginning, only make an effort to memorize:
high frequency words and recurring patterns. Then start reading or listening to what you enjoy. Sit back and relax.Don't try to understand everything. You don't even in your native language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great blog! I agree with your approach. I study Japanese because I want to read Kawabata and Mishima in the original. That motivation keeps me going.</p>
<p>My mantra for learning is, in the beginning, only make an effort to memorize:<br />
high frequency words and recurring patterns. Then start reading or listening to what you enjoy. Sit back and relax.Don&#8217;t try to understand everything. You don&#8217;t even in your native language.</p>
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